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	<title>Comments on: The Bible Lacks Leaders?</title>
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	<link>http://www.georgebarna.com/2010/02/the-bible-lacks-leaders/</link>
	<description>Facilitating A Spiritual And Moral Revolution</description>
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		<title>By: Ken Eastburn</title>
		<link>http://www.georgebarna.com/2010/02/the-bible-lacks-leaders/comment-page-1/#comment-230</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Eastburn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Feb 2010 22:42:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.georgebarna.com/?p=258#comment-230</guid>
		<description>&quot;Those qualities are not incompatible with leadership...&quot;

-Oh, of course.  I don&#039;t mean to imply that one can either choose to be a leader or be surrendered to God.  But I will say God seemed particularly interested in using the non-leaders.  The reason is obvious: a good leader who makes a difference for God can still receive some of the credit.  But a fool who makes a difference for God has no claim to the credit.  They&#039;re fools, after all.

I certainly struggle with that fact, though.  I mean, we are a leadership culture.  Great leaders are our heroes.

I wonder what the balance is.  Any thoughts?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Those qualities are not incompatible with leadership&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>-Oh, of course.  I don&#8217;t mean to imply that one can either choose to be a leader or be surrendered to God.  But I will say God seemed particularly interested in using the non-leaders.  The reason is obvious: a good leader who makes a difference for God can still receive some of the credit.  But a fool who makes a difference for God has no claim to the credit.  They&#8217;re fools, after all.</p>
<p>I certainly struggle with that fact, though.  I mean, we are a leadership culture.  Great leaders are our heroes.</p>
<p>I wonder what the balance is.  Any thoughts?</p>
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		<title>By: George Barna</title>
		<link>http://www.georgebarna.com/2010/02/the-bible-lacks-leaders/comment-page-1/#comment-216</link>
		<dc:creator>George Barna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:55:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.georgebarna.com/?p=258#comment-216</guid>
		<description>Ken,
I wholeheartedly agree that the best leaders are sold out to God, fully surrendered and submissive to His will. Being submitted and surrendered, however, does not mean a person is not a leader. Those qualities are not incompatible with leadership, though they are uncommon in most of today&#039;s leaders. I think that is more to the point than saying that the Bible lacks leaders. God uses people - indeed, He calls and gifts certain people - to lead others, and their capacity to be effective is related to their dependence upon Him. The notion that God uses fools to lead is correct, but that&#039;s only because we&#039;re all fools and yet He chooses some to lead.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ken,<br />
I wholeheartedly agree that the best leaders are sold out to God, fully surrendered and submissive to His will. Being submitted and surrendered, however, does not mean a person is not a leader. Those qualities are not incompatible with leadership, though they are uncommon in most of today&#8217;s leaders. I think that is more to the point than saying that the Bible lacks leaders. God uses people &#8211; indeed, He calls and gifts certain people &#8211; to lead others, and their capacity to be effective is related to their dependence upon Him. The notion that God uses fools to lead is correct, but that&#8217;s only because we&#8217;re all fools and yet He chooses some to lead.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Eastburn</title>
		<link>http://www.georgebarna.com/2010/02/the-bible-lacks-leaders/comment-page-1/#comment-215</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Eastburn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Feb 2010 17:27:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.georgebarna.com/?p=258#comment-215</guid>
		<description>Actually, I&#039;m comforted by the fact that the Bible lacks leaders.

Isn&#039;t that the point?

That we see how God, time and time again, used complete fools to accomplish his work?  They had no room to boast, precisely because they weren&#039;t leaders.

And that is where the whole leadership paradigm gets flipped on its head.  It is not about our abilities at all, it is about God&#039;s.  And, as it turns out, surrending ourselves to God makes for the best leaders of all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, I&#8217;m comforted by the fact that the Bible lacks leaders.</p>
<p>Isn&#8217;t that the point?</p>
<p>That we see how God, time and time again, used complete fools to accomplish his work?  They had no room to boast, precisely because they weren&#8217;t leaders.</p>
<p>And that is where the whole leadership paradigm gets flipped on its head.  It is not about our abilities at all, it is about God&#8217;s.  And, as it turns out, surrending ourselves to God makes for the best leaders of all.</p>
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		<title>By: ED... (who blogs at SINCERE IGNORANCE AND CONSCIENTIOUS STUPIDITY)</title>
		<link>http://www.georgebarna.com/2010/02/the-bible-lacks-leaders/comment-page-1/#comment-205</link>
		<dc:creator>ED... (who blogs at SINCERE IGNORANCE AND CONSCIENTIOUS STUPIDITY)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Feb 2010 16:29:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.georgebarna.com/?p=258#comment-205</guid>
		<description>To my mind, the bible is not a book of moral examples, but a story with Jesus as the hero. I don&#039;t look at the story of David and Goliath and think: what are the Goliaths in my life? What do I have to do to summon up the courage to be brave and fearless like David? I used to try that, but when I did the stories crushed me. I&#039;m not as good as those guys, and even they weren&#039;t as good as they ought to be. 

When I realised that the bible isn&#039;t basically about me, but is about Jesus, who lived out the best possible life, it started to make more sense to me. Not only that - it became a liberation. 

I think this is a warranted way of looking at the scriptures because of what Jesus himself said about the bible. In his discussion with the pharisees he rebuked them for not understanding that the scriptures point to him, for example. 

And on the road to Emmaus, he called his companions &quot;foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken!&quot; 

When he went on to say &quot;Was it not necessary that the Christ should suffer these things and enter into his glory?” he then demonstrated to them all the things written there concerning himself. Significantly, he began with Moses and all the Prophets. What that means is that he considered the whole of the old testament to be about himself. 

I read a helpful quote which says it much better here: http://www.reformationtheology.com/2008/04/its_about_him.php 

Its about Him

&quot;Jesus is the true and better Adam who passed the test in the garden and whose obedience is imputed to us.

Jesus is the true and better Abel who, though innocently slain, has blood now that cries out, not for our condemnation, but for acquittal.

Jesus is the true and better Abraham who answered the call of God to leave all the comfortable and familiar and go out into the void not knowing wither he went to create a new people of God.

Jesus is the true and better Isaac who was not just offered up by his father on the mount but was truly sacrificed for us. And when God said to Abraham, “Now I know you love me because you did not withhold your son, your only son whom you love from me,” now we can look at God taking his son up the mountain and sacrificing him and say, “Now we know that you love us because you did not withhold your son, your only son, whom you love from us.”

Jesus is the true and better Jacob who wrestled and took the blow of justice we deserved, so we, like Jacob, only receive the wounds of grace to wake us up and discipline us.

Jesus is the true and better Joseph who, at the right hand of the king, forgives those who betrayed and sold him and uses his new power to save them.

Jesus is the true and better Moses who stands in the gap between the people and the Lord and who mediates a new covenant.

Jesus is the true and better Rock of Moses who, struck with the rod of God’s justice, now gives us water in the desert.

Jesus is the true and better Job, the truly innocent sufferer, who then intercedes for and saves his stupid friends.

Jesus is the true and better David whose victory becomes his people’s victory, though they never lifted a stone to accomplish it themselves.

Jesus is the true and better Esther who didn’t just risk losing an earthly palace but lost the ultimate and heavenly one, who didn’t just risk his life, but gave his life to save his people.

Jesus is the true and better Jonah who was cast out into the storm so that we could be brought in.

Jesus is the real Rock of Moses, the real Passover Lamb, innocent, perfect, helpless, slain so the angel of death will pass over us. He’s the true temple, the true prophet, the true priest, the true king, the true sacrifice, the true lamb, the true light, the true bread.

The Bible’s really not about you — it’s about Him.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To my mind, the bible is not a book of moral examples, but a story with Jesus as the hero. I don&#8217;t look at the story of David and Goliath and think: what are the Goliaths in my life? What do I have to do to summon up the courage to be brave and fearless like David? I used to try that, but when I did the stories crushed me. I&#8217;m not as good as those guys, and even they weren&#8217;t as good as they ought to be. </p>
<p>When I realised that the bible isn&#8217;t basically about me, but is about Jesus, who lived out the best possible life, it started to make more sense to me. Not only that &#8211; it became a liberation. </p>
<p>I think this is a warranted way of looking at the scriptures because of what Jesus himself said about the bible. In his discussion with the pharisees he rebuked them for not understanding that the scriptures point to him, for example. </p>
<p>And on the road to Emmaus, he called his companions &#8220;foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken!&#8221; </p>
<p>When he went on to say &#8220;Was it not necessary that the Christ should suffer these things and enter into his glory?” he then demonstrated to them all the things written there concerning himself. Significantly, he began with Moses and all the Prophets. What that means is that he considered the whole of the old testament to be about himself. </p>
<p>I read a helpful quote which says it much better here: <a href="http://www.reformationtheology.com/2008/04/its_about_him.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.reformationtheology.com/2008/04/its_about_him.php</a> </p>
<p>Its about Him</p>
<p>&#8220;Jesus is the true and better Adam who passed the test in the garden and whose obedience is imputed to us.</p>
<p>Jesus is the true and better Abel who, though innocently slain, has blood now that cries out, not for our condemnation, but for acquittal.</p>
<p>Jesus is the true and better Abraham who answered the call of God to leave all the comfortable and familiar and go out into the void not knowing wither he went to create a new people of God.</p>
<p>Jesus is the true and better Isaac who was not just offered up by his father on the mount but was truly sacrificed for us. And when God said to Abraham, “Now I know you love me because you did not withhold your son, your only son whom you love from me,” now we can look at God taking his son up the mountain and sacrificing him and say, “Now we know that you love us because you did not withhold your son, your only son, whom you love from us.”</p>
<p>Jesus is the true and better Jacob who wrestled and took the blow of justice we deserved, so we, like Jacob, only receive the wounds of grace to wake us up and discipline us.</p>
<p>Jesus is the true and better Joseph who, at the right hand of the king, forgives those who betrayed and sold him and uses his new power to save them.</p>
<p>Jesus is the true and better Moses who stands in the gap between the people and the Lord and who mediates a new covenant.</p>
<p>Jesus is the true and better Rock of Moses who, struck with the rod of God’s justice, now gives us water in the desert.</p>
<p>Jesus is the true and better Job, the truly innocent sufferer, who then intercedes for and saves his stupid friends.</p>
<p>Jesus is the true and better David whose victory becomes his people’s victory, though they never lifted a stone to accomplish it themselves.</p>
<p>Jesus is the true and better Esther who didn’t just risk losing an earthly palace but lost the ultimate and heavenly one, who didn’t just risk his life, but gave his life to save his people.</p>
<p>Jesus is the true and better Jonah who was cast out into the storm so that we could be brought in.</p>
<p>Jesus is the real Rock of Moses, the real Passover Lamb, innocent, perfect, helpless, slain so the angel of death will pass over us. He’s the true temple, the true prophet, the true priest, the true king, the true sacrifice, the true lamb, the true light, the true bread.</p>
<p>The Bible’s really not about you — it’s about Him.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Roberts</title>
		<link>http://www.georgebarna.com/2010/02/the-bible-lacks-leaders/comment-page-1/#comment-201</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Roberts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Feb 2010 22:32:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.georgebarna.com/?p=258#comment-201</guid>
		<description>The seminaries lack leaders.
 Humans are deceived, LAW trashing, GOD hating (Jer 17:9/Rom 8:7) rebellious criminals. Due to being offspring of Adam and Eve, the original human rebels, there is a propensity to be autonomous God wannabes, gullible, guilt shifters, and gamblers. The concept of true leadership, even at the seminary level is warped like it was 2000 years ago when JESUS&#039; disciples were on a ego/power trip to be next to JESUS in the Earthly kingdom. The concept of servant leadership is foreign. To them, the Num 12:3 character trait of MOSES and the episode of JESUS washing His disciples feet is repulsive. 
Another critical issue is when the bible is slammed for being insufficent to portray enough leadership models. The bible constantly takes  hits by academic higher criticism and philosophy to undermine the faith in it for the the general population. 
I appreciate the leadership of JESUS, Paul, Peter, John and Jude who warned of ecclesiatical  individuals who competed against the truth and authority of God.
True leaders are courageous enough to say &quot;NO&quot; to the status quo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The seminaries lack leaders.<br />
 Humans are deceived, LAW trashing, GOD hating (Jer 17:9/Rom 8:7) rebellious criminals. Due to being offspring of Adam and Eve, the original human rebels, there is a propensity to be autonomous God wannabes, gullible, guilt shifters, and gamblers. The concept of true leadership, even at the seminary level is warped like it was 2000 years ago when JESUS&#8217; disciples were on a ego/power trip to be next to JESUS in the Earthly kingdom. The concept of servant leadership is foreign. To them, the Num 12:3 character trait of MOSES and the episode of JESUS washing His disciples feet is repulsive.<br />
Another critical issue is when the bible is slammed for being insufficent to portray enough leadership models. The bible constantly takes  hits by academic higher criticism and philosophy to undermine the faith in it for the the general population.<br />
I appreciate the leadership of JESUS, Paul, Peter, John and Jude who warned of ecclesiatical  individuals who competed against the truth and authority of God.<br />
True leaders are courageous enough to say &#8220;NO&#8221; to the status quo.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Bednar</title>
		<link>http://www.georgebarna.com/2010/02/the-bible-lacks-leaders/comment-page-1/#comment-199</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Bednar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 13:42:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.georgebarna.com/?p=258#comment-199</guid>
		<description>What I find interesting is your statement regarding “leadership eyes”. As you write a lot about a &quot;Biblical&quot; worldview, I find this statement maybe betrays that you might also be reading the Bible with an &quot;agenda&quot; so as to see it as a text for modern leadership.

You have criticized many for there &quot;eyes&quot;, I am just wondering if this post betrays something you have not thought about.

I&#039;d love to hear your response of which I expect would teach me a little bit more about how you approach the Bible and give me insight on how to view your work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I find interesting is your statement regarding “leadership eyes”. As you write a lot about a &#8220;Biblical&#8221; worldview, I find this statement maybe betrays that you might also be reading the Bible with an &#8220;agenda&#8221; so as to see it as a text for modern leadership.</p>
<p>You have criticized many for there &#8220;eyes&#8221;, I am just wondering if this post betrays something you have not thought about.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d love to hear your response of which I expect would teach me a little bit more about how you approach the Bible and give me insight on how to view your work.</p>
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		<title>By: Norm</title>
		<link>http://www.georgebarna.com/2010/02/the-bible-lacks-leaders/comment-page-1/#comment-198</link>
		<dc:creator>Norm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 20:58:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.georgebarna.com/?p=258#comment-198</guid>
		<description>Did Jesus not say &quot;Follow me?&quot;

Love Fred&#039;s comments in &#039;Leadership&#039;, particularly the 1st point: &quot;did the leaders in scripture focus so much on the principles of leadership and developing themselves as leaders...than God etc&quot;

This whole business of trying to do something BIG in a formulaic fashion for God is odorous, and frankly, it is not what the Bible teaches. For it is GOD who initiates vision and leaders NOT man. Moses, Gideon etc etc etc ...

George, PLEASE give us a hint so we can have a look at this article for ourselves.

bignorm.net</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did Jesus not say &#8220;Follow me?&#8221;</p>
<p>Love Fred&#8217;s comments in &#8216;Leadership&#8217;, particularly the 1st point: &#8220;did the leaders in scripture focus so much on the principles of leadership and developing themselves as leaders&#8230;than God etc&#8221;</p>
<p>This whole business of trying to do something BIG in a formulaic fashion for God is odorous, and frankly, it is not what the Bible teaches. For it is GOD who initiates vision and leaders NOT man. Moses, Gideon etc etc etc &#8230;</p>
<p>George, PLEASE give us a hint so we can have a look at this article for ourselves.</p>
<p>bignorm.net</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Hertzler</title>
		<link>http://www.georgebarna.com/2010/02/the-bible-lacks-leaders/comment-page-1/#comment-197</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Hertzler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 20:00:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.georgebarna.com/?p=258#comment-197</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s amazing to think we would turn away from the challenge to be the leader that Jesus Christ was here on earth. The whole point of living a life based on the Bible is to become more like Christ. The kind of thinking you refer to in the article makes me wonder just how pervasive is the current culture in the Church and religous institutions. 

Can we not get beyond our own reality to see the truth of God&#039;s word and how to apply it in daily life? I would be entirely satisfied to follow a leader who continues to become more like Jesus. If you can&#039;t understand how to use Jesus as your leadership model, please contact me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s amazing to think we would turn away from the challenge to be the leader that Jesus Christ was here on earth. The whole point of living a life based on the Bible is to become more like Christ. The kind of thinking you refer to in the article makes me wonder just how pervasive is the current culture in the Church and religous institutions. </p>
<p>Can we not get beyond our own reality to see the truth of God&#8217;s word and how to apply it in daily life? I would be entirely satisfied to follow a leader who continues to become more like Jesus. If you can&#8217;t understand how to use Jesus as your leadership model, please contact me.</p>
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		<title>By: Fred</title>
		<link>http://www.georgebarna.com/2010/02/the-bible-lacks-leaders/comment-page-1/#comment-196</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:48:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.georgebarna.com/?p=258#comment-196</guid>
		<description>George- I really appreciate your thoughts above that we should be learning from the examples of leaders in the scriptures, investing ourselves in following Jesus even though it isn&#039;t always easy and appreciating the lessons that come (only?) through failure.

I haven&#039;t read the article you referenced, but wonder if the author might be suggesting (intentionally or unintentionally) that they sense a disconnect between the leaders they see in scripture and the ideas/ideals of Christian leaders(ship) today.

For example- did the leaders in scripture focus so much on the principles of leadership and developing themselves as leaders- or more on letting God develop them as His follwers?  Were they only deemed great leaders because of their great success and effectiveness- or were some of the leaders we look to in scripture rather &quot;unsuccessful&quot; by today&#039;s standards?  (Like Moses maybe?)  Were they always initiative takers- or did they often have to be coerced into leadership by God?  Were they powerful vision casters- or did they people they led often misunderstand, drag their feet or even rebel?  Were they genius strategic planners- or were their plans frustrated by God so that He could lead them towards what He had in mind- but would rarely tell them directly so that they could capture it in a 5-year plan?

I agree with you that there are great leaders to learn from in the scripture with lots of wisdom (gained through some success, some failure and plenty of suffering) to offer us.  However, I wonder how these leaders would feel about/stack up against our ideals of Christian leadership today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>George- I really appreciate your thoughts above that we should be learning from the examples of leaders in the scriptures, investing ourselves in following Jesus even though it isn&#8217;t always easy and appreciating the lessons that come (only?) through failure.</p>
<p>I haven&#8217;t read the article you referenced, but wonder if the author might be suggesting (intentionally or unintentionally) that they sense a disconnect between the leaders they see in scripture and the ideas/ideals of Christian leaders(ship) today.</p>
<p>For example- did the leaders in scripture focus so much on the principles of leadership and developing themselves as leaders- or more on letting God develop them as His follwers?  Were they only deemed great leaders because of their great success and effectiveness- or were some of the leaders we look to in scripture rather &#8220;unsuccessful&#8221; by today&#8217;s standards?  (Like Moses maybe?)  Were they always initiative takers- or did they often have to be coerced into leadership by God?  Were they powerful vision casters- or did they people they led often misunderstand, drag their feet or even rebel?  Were they genius strategic planners- or were their plans frustrated by God so that He could lead them towards what He had in mind- but would rarely tell them directly so that they could capture it in a 5-year plan?</p>
<p>I agree with you that there are great leaders to learn from in the scripture with lots of wisdom (gained through some success, some failure and plenty of suffering) to offer us.  However, I wonder how these leaders would feel about/stack up against our ideals of Christian leadership today.</p>
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