A few months ago I wrote a Barna Update about our research among homosexuals. Every year I write several reports about topics that make people uncomfortable, and invariably describe some data that people wish were not the case. In this instance one of the observations from the research was that a significant proportion of the homosexuals interviewed (27%) met the “born again” criteria we use. The reaction to that finding was shockingly hateful – not everyone who wrote to or called us responded in that manner, of course, but an amazingly large share of the notes that came in were venomous. A number of emails questioned my faith and salvation. Several outright condemned me and denied the possibility that I am a follower of Christ. I am used to being challenged and am comfortable with debates about how we apply our faith, but the hostility quotient broke the meter after that release.
What is it that so many people in the Church don’t understand about love? How is it possible for millions of church-going, Bible-reading adults to believe that Jesus would have responded with similar hostility toward messengers, much less toward those who have strayed from biblical teaching? Do these church people believe that they are sinless? Do they imagine that they are setting a ideal example for the young people who observe their attitude and actions?
After that experience it has been much easier for me to understand the distaste so many gays have for the Christian body – and why so many young adults who are not gay have gone to great lengths to distance themselves from the conservative Christian juggernaut. From a marketing perspective, it was also a stark reminder that it only takes a relative handful of outliers – at least I hope they were outliers – to undermine the image and standing of the majority.
February 3, 2010
“How is it possible for millions of church-going, Bible-reading adults to believe that Jesus would have responded with similar hostility toward messengers, much less toward those who have strayed from biblical teaching?”
Call me crazy, but I think it comes down to a fundamental error the Western Church has committed. That is, instead of teaching Christians what it means to be a disciple of Christ and the characteristics of that according to the Bible, the Western Church has (whether intentionally or not) trained believers that to be a disciple of Jesus is about right and wrong, moralizing, and setting up the best shop in town.
It is only natural when that happens to react in a way that is not consistent with the character of Christ – they don’t know the character of Christ.
They only know what the Bible calls “good” and what the Bible calls “bad” and so they become characterized by what they are against.
February 4, 2010
Ken, I would even go so far as to say that the issue is we have not learned how to love people, and churches, families oand other institutions designed to enhance our lives have not done a good enough job at recognizing and addressing the problem. The book I am writing at the moment keeps drawing me back to the two commandments that Jesus called the greatest – love God and love people. Our biggest challenge may be understanding and following those simple but difficult commands.
February 5, 2010
Perhaps, George.
But be careful of the other extreme. Whereas these folks have erred on the side of truth and neglected love, so many err on the side of love and neglect truth.
Of course, we should say that loveless truth is not truth and truthless love is not love. For Jesus and the writers of the Bible, truth and love were completely intertwined.
Looking forward to seeing your book!
February 5, 2010
What if churches taught nothing but the love of God for one year? Leave all the fear of God out of it. No hell. People need to look at God for what God is, an experiencer. God experiences God’s magnificence’s through us. Other wise God could only imagine it and never experience it.
February 3, 2010
To be fair, you need to acknowledge that these overreactions are less about you and your polls than they are about the tsunami of cultural, sexual confusion that appears ready to overtake both church and society.
While you personally did not deserve the venom, you poked a lot of people who were already coiled to strike.
The first question should not be about their boorishness, but whether they are coiled for a legitimate reason. While they are to be admonished for biting, it is a good thing to know that outrage over the descending tsuanmi is not yet entirely dead.
February 4, 2010
This quote was on the sidebar… “It is not a church’s job to spiritually develop your children. Scripturally, it is the job of the parents. The church body is supposed to support parents in raising children, not replace them.”
THANK YOU!!! As a childcare worker in the church, it is very disheartening and sad when parents expect me to be the one to teach their children values. Then when those children are teenagers and young adults, it will be “the church’s fault” that their kids followed in the parent’s footsteps… irresponsibilty and abdication.
February 4, 2010
Amber, when I did the research for Transforming Children into Spiritual Champions, and then for Revolutionary Parenting, several conditions continually emerged to help explain the problem we face: i.e., most parents feel overmatched at parenting, so they look to experts to do the job for them – schools, churches, sports leagues, media, etc. Our culture facilitates this by encouraging us to “need” so much stuff that both parents have to work, leaving little time or energy to focus on raising the children. Our priorities have become confused, and our children often reflect it, despite good intentions.
February 4, 2010
I’m not really sure why people get so hot about something when they haven’t even really read the information correctly in the first place. All the statistics are saying is that these 27% of homosexuals “met the criteria” for a “born-again” believer. Doesn’t that just mean they answered all the questions correctly or maybe they even believe they are one because they’ve lived a certain way their whole life. I’m not saying that a born-again believer cannot also be a sinner, obviously. But I do believe that once you are truly a child of God, you will want to turn from your sins, therefore, I don’t believe a practicing homosexual would want to actually be a true Christ follower.
That said, I agree with Mr. Barna in that nobody should be throwing the stones at anyone else. We are all sinners, and more importantly, we believers are to be the most loving and forgiving people on this planet.
February 5, 2010
“…I do believe that once you are truly a child of God, you will want to turn from your sins, therefore, I don’t believe a practicing homosexual would want to actually be a true Christ follower.”
Alison Perez what are you thinking?
Let’s stick to the facts so it doesn’t get personal.
What you just said is Soooooo…damn cruel. I used the word damn to show of the importance of your choice of words.
So I placed it on my website to show of your lower level of the understandings of God’s love. I said Shame on you more then once.
http://www.equaltogod.com/patrobertsonshate.htm
Christ to me means “The Devine Light of God Within.” What most of you are saying is that God isn’t perfect. Shame on you all! Read my site. The Bible is the lowest form of communication God uses because words can often be misinterpreted. People gay and straight are leaving the churches for a reason. There is nothing wrong with us.
February 5, 2010
I’m gay and I thank the churches for closing their doors to gay’s. You did me a great service. You brought me/us closer in Oneness with God. See my website and learn how you also can be Equal to God!
http://www.equaltogod.com/patrobertsonshate.htm
Learn more about Love. True Unconditional Love.
When you can understand even Hitler is in heaven you’ll know God.
February 5, 2010
Thank you so much for posting this George. This is definitely a site I intend to follow closely from now on.
I’d just like to add that no one turned me away from the church for being gay. I did that to myself after reading Leviticus 18:22 “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination” and so I spent the last two decades of my life living under the assumption that there just won’t be a place in heaven for me. However, recent religious influences in my life have caused me to re-examine the book of Leviticus a little more thoroughly. What I discovered is that the whole book of Leviticus is kind of wacked – lots of “Thou shalt not’s” regarding sexuality and just incredibly stupid stuff. What I find odd is the passage condemning homosexuality is the only sexual condemnation followed by “it is abomination.” Seems pretty harsh so I Googled it.
According to Wikipedia “abomination” is mentioned 16 times in the book of Leviticus but mostly in reference to “dietary prohibitions (for example prohibiting the consumption of shellfish and pork).” Interesting; I guess I can see where eating shellfish might have been prohibited as the poor simpletons most likely did not know how to properly prepare it back then. The pork prohibition is a bit of a stretch though. But who knows? Maybe a strain of “mad cow’s disease” was afflicting their pigs at the time. But why was gay sex prohibited? I mean, it’s not like this was a new thing fresh out of the closet for them. Ancient Greek and Romans had been having all-male drinking parties where young men were schooled in the art of “good citizenship” (homosexuality) for ages. So what happened during the time of Leviticus that suddenly made lying with a man as he would a woman such a bad thing?
If I remember correctly from Sunday school, the more descendant’s one had the richer and more powerful he became. Well OK. All these rules are starting to make sense now. Eating ill-prepared shellfish, diseased pork and homosexuality are all things that could threaten the health, survival and procreation of the tribe. Or more to the point; it could threaten the health, survival and procreation of more money and power to the rich patriarch or King. Well, I suppose if I were a rich, greedy King back in the day I’d have wanted a law prohibiting homosexuality too. I mean, how else could I hold my tribe accountable for creating more boy babies for me to send off to slaughter… I mean… war?
After re-examining the book of Leviticus it has become clear that this book was not written by or for God at all. It was written for the benefit of the rich and powerful centuries ago. Bottom line – these laws no longer apply in today’s world. Or if they do, then there are an awful lot of pork and shell fish eaters whom I’m afraid will never make it into the kingdom of God. LOL
Sorry to vent. Guess this article kind of touched a nerve with me as well.
Stay real George!
Question: How do I get a photo or graphic to appear next to my user name?
February 5, 2010
Is Religion Child Abuse?
I feel that question deserves a fair chance to be asked in a non-judgmental and open minded kind of way. So first consider the person’s state of mind answering that question. Is that person basing their conclusions on what they’ve been taught, or what they know to be true in their hearts when thought about consciously? People are always being told what to think and do. Are you one of them? Everyone is on their own journey through out this life which is meant for us to find our own way home. We were taught that we can’t get close to God because of the sins of Adam and Eve. What if that’s not true? That God view’s us as pure and perfect. It’s up to us to understand this and find our own way home. What is finding home, Heaven/Hell? No, home is understanding who you are in relationship to God. To do that you first have to know what you’re not, you are not God. That’s what we all been taught. Now that we know this we can begin to question and realize that we and God are truly one.
I define God as an experiencer. To experience life through us, because before us when all there was was God, God could only image God’s own magnificences. God could never experience them. So this Ultimate Universal Being we call God took from itself a piece of self and placed over here or there. That same smaller part of God would still know itself as part of the whole. This allowed God to know just how magnificent God was. But for God to understand the true meaning of God’s love, God had to create love’s opposite which is fear. This lets God know and experience the true meaning of love since God is all love. So there are only two emotions in life and all other emotions are sub-emotions of one of these two. NDW explains it better.
Since fear is an illusion in our own minds we can experience life in one of these two categories. So how do you live your life? love or fear? Most people do it on both to avoid giving it conscious thought and why be held responsible for your own actions when we can blame it on people like Pat Robertson on redemption day. How easy it is to just say to God; “that’s what I’ve been taught… so you have to let me in.” It’s a valid question to understanding who you are, do you know? That is why I set up this site for you to find your own way home. Either way if you live your life in fear and false illusions or in the abundances of love and all the good things that come with it. (It’s just amazing what a little act of kindness can do.) Either way your right because God still gets to experience life through you. Even if you don’t believe in a God, it’s an experience for God and you. But it’s your own journey and “frankly my dear, I don’t give a damn.” …grin, sorry, always wanted to say that. Who am I to say what God should experience? I’m on my own journey and many of you will treat this questioning of my God’s truth as blasphemy. But it’s my journey.
I have found that most religions agree on one thing; “God is all love.” Therefore I feel we can define God and make a distinction between a hate group and religion. If their religion is one of hate I feel it should be practiced in their place of worship. If they bring their hate and discontent to others falsely with free speech they should be held responsible for any damages caused to others through false teachings and slander.
The illusion we’re told and forced to believe is that we can’t define the imaginable, therefore we can’t define God and these religious groups like the 700 Club and Focus on the Family can degrade other people to promote there own cause. Is that you? Yes I feel religion is a form of abuse and should be held accountable when they continue to degrade a group of people when the facts prove otherwise. Michael = God
February 8, 2010
well lets look at this in the eyes of God, He has the bible written by the holy spirit through the men and women he uses to write the scriptures. Now this is the perfect infallible word by the creator of the universe. The book from beginning to end is the truth, laws and guidance for the human race. He even sent his son to save his creation. He created man and woman in marriage only. Now since we all sin , we must repent and turn from that way of life, But we are to love one another, God says hate the sin love the sinner. So as in all sins we are to hate them and turn from them. So if a person is a homosexual and keeps that lifestyle of sin, why should god grant them salvation, it is the same for adultery, theives, liars and all other types of acts that breaks gods laws, The organized churches have done what the bible said they would do and make their own laws and not follow gods. So seek the truth and love one another, but that does not mean as loving Christians we accept others sinful lifestyle as being good, being a christian is hard, but god will judge all of us and if we never stopped our sinning life why should he grant us heaven? I am still sinning and repenting, but I pray and ask him to help me and he does, So we are not to call names or be mad at each other but we are to love and bring each other to christ and try to live as he did. God bless everyone,
February 8, 2010
Well, thank you, mutual minds for your response. Maybe you are right about the Bible being the lowest form of communication. I tend to think that man relies way too heavily on the written word (written a really long time ago for different people) and way to lightly on the Living Word inside our hearts. The Holy Spirit should be the first place we go to for daily guidance.
I think sadly you have misunderstood many things that the Lord God intended for you to understand. And many things that you may not are not even your fault; it’s just what society has lead you to believe. I do not disagree with the statement that gays claim to be born-again believers. But the fact remains that homosexuality is contrary to God’s nature. I’m sorry. That’s a fact.
I really don’t mean to start a fight or cause a problem. I don’t.
Now, more importantly, do I realize that my own sins are also just as contrary to God’s nature and do I realize that I cannot judge anyone else’s sin before my own? Yes, I realize that. You may disagree, and that’s fine.
I just want my bottom line to be this: If I say I love Christ, then I must love my fellow man. No matter who they are or what they do. I would also expect that from any other person who claims to carry the name of Christ. I would hope other believers would be as forgiving of my sins as I should be of theirs.
But as we grow together as family in Christ, always with our eyes on Jesus, we are ever aiming toward perfection…. turning away from our sins and turning more towards Love and Holiness.
Honestly, I find your explanation on who God is and we are and child abuse and all that to be extremely confusing and complicated. Whereas, Christ’s teachings? Extremely simple. Easy enough for a child to understand. Just love God and one another. That’s it. Nothing more. Like you and Dream wever said, the old testament stuff does not really apply to us today. It’s just all comes down to one simple rule that Jesus made very clear: LOVE. Follow this and you will have peace that passes understanding. Nothing else matters….
But I do agree with Jeff, the Christ-like life is very difficult. It may be simple to understand, but it is extremely challenging to maintain in the world. We are all sinners and our flesh is SO weak. And there are so many distractions from the Way and the Truth. I find myself struggling every minute of every day. We all do, don’t we? I have trouble being as loving as I should to my own husband and family members. That’s why we must be in CONSTANT prayer. CONSTANT communion with the Holy Spirit in order to give Christ the victory in all things.
I’m sorry, now I’m venting, or preaching, I guess. Please don’t be mad mutual minds and dream wever. I don’t mean to be hateful or judgmental. That’s not my place. I just have to share what I feel is on my heart and what the Holy Spirit reveals to me is Truth.
February 17, 2010
George, only if people cared and got up in arms this much about being a follower of Christ in their neighborhood, or the neighborhood below theirs in class.
February 21, 2010
A little leaven . . . This is what it leads to George. Repudiation of the word of God. All I need is my inner light . . .it was written a long time ago etc. While we must have love, we were also told to remove the sinful man from ourselves. Nobody likes to quote that pesky Paul fellow do they? We are all sinners, the difference is some of us repent or keep repenting of our sins while others, having their consciences seared tell themselves and others that their acts are OK. Not only do they practice these things but encourage others.
February 22, 2010
AGAIN;
Humans are deceived, LAW trashing, GOD hating (Jer 17:9/Rom 8:7) rebellious criminals living on a penal colony EARTH, run by SATAN the warden.
Even after hearing the gospel, PAUL still had to write a whole chapter (1 Cor 13) to give clues on love.
Homosexuality, abortion and evolution are the popular whipping dog topics , yet they do not attract near the hostile attention that a 3 letter word starting with “L” does.
I could have lived next to Hitler, Stalin, Jim Jones, Elton John, or Ted Bundy…in heaven …IF they had gone through GOD’s REHAB program. If not……you can live next door to them.
May 12, 2010
I’m so glad to have found someone speaking out about this issue in regards to the church – thank you! Living in the North West the gay and bi/tras-sexual communities are quite prevalent. This has led me to do some research and discussions among other Christians in my community regarding the topic. In doing some exegesis I’ve found I’ve found interesting is that Jesus doesn’t mention homosexuality once in the New Testament. In fact, He said that He didn’t come to judge the world. He continually shows love to people in sin, and this love is what draws them to Him every time – not judgment.
I think the church has somehow gotten the idea that it’s our job and duty to judge those who are “in sin.” (For some reason the sin of homosexuality is at the top of the sin list.) In doing so we have driven the gay community far away from the church, Jesus, and His love. It is tragic. We also come into relationships with gay people with an agenda they can sense a mile off. There is also a great sense of fear involved in making friends with them. It’s as if they have a disease that could be contagious. But what would happen if we would love them like Jesus calls us to? If we befriended them and didn’t have an agenda driven friendship?
My family and I have more than a handful of gay friends. I must say that we aren’t close to any of them despite our efforts which have been free of agenda. Honestly I don’t blame them a bit for holding us at arms’ length. After seeing what the right wing church has done to them if I were in their shoes I would run the other direction.
A few years back our church did a seminar at our local university about sex and the church. During the seminar my husband got up and apologized to the gay community for the churches’ abuses and treatment of it. As he did his heart broke and he began to cry. I can’t tell you how powerful that moment was. Something broke in the room, and I know healing took place. Since that time we have maintained friendships with several gay people who were in attendance. It’s a small step, but you have to start somewhere.
July 27, 2010
I waswondering if the barna group has done research on or knows of research pertaining to parent interaction and the likelihood of homosexuality?