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	<title>Comments on: Championing the Christ-without-church Movement</title>
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	<link>http://www.georgebarna.com/2010/02/championing-the-christ-without-church-movement/</link>
	<description>Facilitating A Spiritual And Moral Revolution</description>
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		<title>By: Eric H</title>
		<link>http://www.georgebarna.com/2010/02/championing-the-christ-without-church-movement/comment-page-1/#comment-4763</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Mar 2011 19:03:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.georgebarna.com/?p=249#comment-4763</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m wondering how you good folks would respond to me saying that... 

...If I had my way, there would be 100,000 Willow Creek Churches in this country. With God&#039;s blessing, perhaps we can make some headway toward that goal.

In just a single decade, WCCC grew to more than 14,000 weekly attenders, spawned countless imitators across the land and is partially responsible for a new way of thinking about what the local church can and should be. Having attended Willow Creek during my years in Illinois, I can say without any doubt that this is a real church: it has spiritual depth, biblical integrity and solid ministry priorities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m wondering how you good folks would respond to me saying that&#8230; </p>
<p>&#8230;If I had my way, there would be 100,000 Willow Creek Churches in this country. With God&#8217;s blessing, perhaps we can make some headway toward that goal.</p>
<p>In just a single decade, WCCC grew to more than 14,000 weekly attenders, spawned countless imitators across the land and is partially responsible for a new way of thinking about what the local church can and should be. Having attended Willow Creek during my years in Illinois, I can say without any doubt that this is a real church: it has spiritual depth, biblical integrity and solid ministry priorities.</p>
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		<title>By: MichaelO</title>
		<link>http://www.georgebarna.com/2010/02/championing-the-christ-without-church-movement/comment-page-1/#comment-3994</link>
		<dc:creator>MichaelO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Feb 2011 23:52:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.georgebarna.com/?p=249#comment-3994</guid>
		<description>I want to just say this about the book &quot;Revolution&quot; by George Barna.
It is one of the most important books that I have read.
It has fundamentally influenced me in many ways.
Because I value the &quot;Revolution&quot; message. 
I was influenced to read another book which has fundamentally influenced me that George co-authored named &quot;Pagan Christianity&quot;.
Thank you for writing them.
I am eternally grateful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I want to just say this about the book &#8220;Revolution&#8221; by George Barna.<br />
It is one of the most important books that I have read.<br />
It has fundamentally influenced me in many ways.<br />
Because I value the &#8220;Revolution&#8221; message.<br />
I was influenced to read another book which has fundamentally influenced me that George co-authored named &#8220;Pagan Christianity&#8221;.<br />
Thank you for writing them.<br />
I am eternally grateful.</p>
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		<title>By: Susan Throop</title>
		<link>http://www.georgebarna.com/2010/02/championing-the-christ-without-church-movement/comment-page-1/#comment-2966</link>
		<dc:creator>Susan Throop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Dec 2010 19:25:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.georgebarna.com/?p=249#comment-2966</guid>
		<description>I agree that you method for those who disagree with you is appropriate.  Perhaps there are times when one should take a stand.  However in the case of your former pastor, he was &quot;off base&quot; in how he handled your viewpoint in Revolution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that you method for those who disagree with you is appropriate.  Perhaps there are times when one should take a stand.  However in the case of your former pastor, he was &#8220;off base&#8221; in how he handled your viewpoint in Revolution.</p>
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		<title>By: Pastor Tim</title>
		<link>http://www.georgebarna.com/2010/02/championing-the-christ-without-church-movement/comment-page-1/#comment-2915</link>
		<dc:creator>Pastor Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 2010 14:20:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.georgebarna.com/?p=249#comment-2915</guid>
		<description>Brother Barna, appreciate your honesty, and forthrightness, very well said. I believe there is a greater degree of immaturity among Christians than we would ever care to admit. I have pastured for over twenty-two years, and have often found those I have viewed as mature to exhibit some of the least mature behavior.

While I believe that we need to speak the truth in love, I find books and internet articles that label people as cults etc. to be completely out of character with Scripture. This type of behavior sows discord among the brethren, and does not serve in building God’s Kingdom.

As a pastor of a local church I may disagree with some of your conclusions, but I must be honest and secure enough to allow my positions to be challenged. If what we believe, cannot stand up to some honest scrutiny, then perhaps we need to change. 

I have witnessed a tendency among Believers to throw the baby out with the bathwater if they don’t agree with every little thing that is said. While I may not agree with everything you teach I certainly have enough sense to read beyond your words and hear your heart. You are right about a great many things concerning the state of the organized church, and I appreciate your insight.

I would simply challenge those who imagine that God has forsaken the structured church to take another look at what they believe as well. I find that many in this camp are just as guilty of the very things they seem to disdain about the local church, and are actually in disobedience to some of the clear teachings of Scripture. This door swings both ways.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brother Barna, appreciate your honesty, and forthrightness, very well said. I believe there is a greater degree of immaturity among Christians than we would ever care to admit. I have pastured for over twenty-two years, and have often found those I have viewed as mature to exhibit some of the least mature behavior.</p>
<p>While I believe that we need to speak the truth in love, I find books and internet articles that label people as cults etc. to be completely out of character with Scripture. This type of behavior sows discord among the brethren, and does not serve in building God’s Kingdom.</p>
<p>As a pastor of a local church I may disagree with some of your conclusions, but I must be honest and secure enough to allow my positions to be challenged. If what we believe, cannot stand up to some honest scrutiny, then perhaps we need to change. </p>
<p>I have witnessed a tendency among Believers to throw the baby out with the bathwater if they don’t agree with every little thing that is said. While I may not agree with everything you teach I certainly have enough sense to read beyond your words and hear your heart. You are right about a great many things concerning the state of the organized church, and I appreciate your insight.</p>
<p>I would simply challenge those who imagine that God has forsaken the structured church to take another look at what they believe as well. I find that many in this camp are just as guilty of the very things they seem to disdain about the local church, and are actually in disobedience to some of the clear teachings of Scripture. This door swings both ways.</p>
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		<title>By: darbwiley</title>
		<link>http://www.georgebarna.com/2010/02/championing-the-christ-without-church-movement/comment-page-1/#comment-1079</link>
		<dc:creator>darbwiley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jun 2010 23:07:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.georgebarna.com/?p=249#comment-1079</guid>
		<description>I see that this is an older article so I&#039;m late to the conversation. What you have to say is truth. It is hard to understand how anyone who has read your book &quot;Revolution&quot; could think you are anti-church! 

I would suggest that you could have had a better title, so that your critics would have absolutely no ammunition to use. I would have titled the article &quot;A Biblical Perspective of the Meaning of Church&quot; With a subtitle, &quot;A Response to Those who accuse me of being the &quot;Champion&quot; of the Christ-without-church cause.&quot; 

I suppose there will always be critics. For those of us who know that we are to be like Christ, loving God and others with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength, it has been my experience it is almost impossible to do in the established church structures that exist today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see that this is an older article so I&#8217;m late to the conversation. What you have to say is truth. It is hard to understand how anyone who has read your book &#8220;Revolution&#8221; could think you are anti-church! </p>
<p>I would suggest that you could have had a better title, so that your critics would have absolutely no ammunition to use. I would have titled the article &#8220;A Biblical Perspective of the Meaning of Church&#8221; With a subtitle, &#8220;A Response to Those who accuse me of being the &#8220;Champion&#8221; of the Christ-without-church cause.&#8221; </p>
<p>I suppose there will always be critics. For those of us who know that we are to be like Christ, loving God and others with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength, it has been my experience it is almost impossible to do in the established church structures that exist today.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://www.georgebarna.com/2010/02/championing-the-christ-without-church-movement/comment-page-1/#comment-982</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jun 2010 03:13:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.georgebarna.com/?p=249#comment-982</guid>
		<description>I realize this is a blog that all the comments support the author.  However, there is a a huge difference between a rule of never criticizing another person&#039;s book publicly and writing a book that publicly, and wrongly as many believe, characterizes the biblical church.  

George you have a platform because many pastors quote your statistics. You are using that platform to put forth a vision of what the church should be. Pastors and authors who love Jesus have not only the freedom, but the responsibility to evaluate and respond for the protection and encouragement of the flock.  What they don&#039;t need to do is talk to you privately before they do.  You didn&#039;t call all the churches and say, &quot;Hey, I&#039;m about to write a book that contradicts what you think the church is about.&quot;  

this comment is not the place to make the case against your view of the church.  But I am against it.  My responsibility is to warn the flock against your poor ecclesiology --not live by your standard of never criticizing another Christian&#039;s book.

I know your groupies on this blog will eat me up --but, I realize that public comments are open to public criticism. I don&#039;t plan on blogging at how awful I&#039;ve been treated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I realize this is a blog that all the comments support the author.  However, there is a a huge difference between a rule of never criticizing another person&#8217;s book publicly and writing a book that publicly, and wrongly as many believe, characterizes the biblical church.  </p>
<p>George you have a platform because many pastors quote your statistics. You are using that platform to put forth a vision of what the church should be. Pastors and authors who love Jesus have not only the freedom, but the responsibility to evaluate and respond for the protection and encouragement of the flock.  What they don&#8217;t need to do is talk to you privately before they do.  You didn&#8217;t call all the churches and say, &#8220;Hey, I&#8217;m about to write a book that contradicts what you think the church is about.&#8221;  </p>
<p>this comment is not the place to make the case against your view of the church.  But I am against it.  My responsibility is to warn the flock against your poor ecclesiology &#8211;not live by your standard of never criticizing another Christian&#8217;s book.</p>
<p>I know your groupies on this blog will eat me up &#8211;but, I realize that public comments are open to public criticism. I don&#8217;t plan on blogging at how awful I&#8217;ve been treated.</p>
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		<title>By: Simon</title>
		<link>http://www.georgebarna.com/2010/02/championing-the-christ-without-church-movement/comment-page-1/#comment-981</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jun 2010 00:54:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.georgebarna.com/?p=249#comment-981</guid>
		<description>Nicely said John. I&#039;m on the verge of becoming a revolutionary myself after 19 years in a church that has culminated in much frustration and disillusionment. However I&#039;m aware of the danger of becoming an unloving, unchristian critic of those who cant quite see what I see. And the temptation to do this is great. Satan would enjoy that very much.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nicely said John. I&#8217;m on the verge of becoming a revolutionary myself after 19 years in a church that has culminated in much frustration and disillusionment. However I&#8217;m aware of the danger of becoming an unloving, unchristian critic of those who cant quite see what I see. And the temptation to do this is great. Satan would enjoy that very much.</p>
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		<title>By: dbx44</title>
		<link>http://www.georgebarna.com/2010/02/championing-the-christ-without-church-movement/comment-page-1/#comment-338</link>
		<dc:creator>dbx44</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Apr 2010 20:00:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.georgebarna.com/?p=249#comment-338</guid>
		<description>george, i haven&#039;t read your book. thus, i am not qualified to comment on much of what is being discussed. but i do like a good article. and what interests me is that no matter how pro or con a pastor or dissenter is, everyone is quick to use your research when making their point. 

(i do belong to a church and can&#039;t ever see myself without a church family, although the problems and shortcomings of the politics of church are maddening at times.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>george, i haven&#8217;t read your book. thus, i am not qualified to comment on much of what is being discussed. but i do like a good article. and what interests me is that no matter how pro or con a pastor or dissenter is, everyone is quick to use your research when making their point. </p>
<p>(i do belong to a church and can&#8217;t ever see myself without a church family, although the problems and shortcomings of the politics of church are maddening at times.)</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.georgebarna.com/2010/02/championing-the-christ-without-church-movement/comment-page-1/#comment-322</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Apr 2010 15:43:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.georgebarna.com/?p=249#comment-322</guid>
		<description>The bulk of Mr. Barna&#039;s work is less about his opinion and more about describing what the research indicates.   If someone does not like what the numbers point to, they need to focus on doing something to change it.  The enemy is very good at getting us to attack the messenger instead of addressing the problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The bulk of Mr. Barna&#8217;s work is less about his opinion and more about describing what the research indicates.   If someone does not like what the numbers point to, they need to focus on doing something to change it.  The enemy is very good at getting us to attack the messenger instead of addressing the problem.</p>
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		<title>By: Nancy</title>
		<link>http://www.georgebarna.com/2010/02/championing-the-christ-without-church-movement/comment-page-1/#comment-316</link>
		<dc:creator>Nancy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Mar 2010 13:03:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.georgebarna.com/?p=249#comment-316</guid>
		<description>You are so right.  The old saying, &quot;who needs enemys with friends like these&quot; is sadly true when it comes to church culture.  I&#039;m sure the devil sits back &amp; laughs. I served in my local church for 21 years and the communication gap is astounding.  We don&#039;t want to praise because it might puff up, but we definately get slammed when we do wrong. We sure have a way with our tongues to destroy those who serve among us. When will we ever learn &amp; walk in the things we teach?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are so right.  The old saying, &#8220;who needs enemys with friends like these&#8221; is sadly true when it comes to church culture.  I&#8217;m sure the devil sits back &amp; laughs. I served in my local church for 21 years and the communication gap is astounding.  We don&#8217;t want to praise because it might puff up, but we definately get slammed when we do wrong. We sure have a way with our tongues to destroy those who serve among us. When will we ever learn &amp; walk in the things we teach?</p>
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