Comments on: Championing the Christ-without-church Movement

By: darbwiley

darbwiley — Mon, 28 Jun 2010 23:07:48 +0000

I see that this is an older article so I’m late to the conversation. What you have to say is truth. It is hard to understand how anyone who has read your book “Revolution” could think you are anti-church!

I would suggest that you could have had a better title, so that your critics would have absolutely no ammunition to use. I would have titled the article “A Biblical Perspective of the Meaning of Church” With a subtitle, “A Response to Those who accuse me of being the “Champion” of the Christ-without-church cause.”

I suppose there will always be critics. For those of us who know that we are to be like Christ, loving God and others with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength, it has been my experience it is almost impossible to do in the established church structures that exist today.

By: Mike

Mike — Sun, 20 Jun 2010 03:13:03 +0000

I realize this is a blog that all the comments support the author. However, there is a a huge difference between a rule of never criticizing another person’s book publicly and writing a book that publicly, and wrongly as many believe, characterizes the biblical church.

George you have a platform because many pastors quote your statistics. You are using that platform to put forth a vision of what the church should be. Pastors and authors who love Jesus have not only the freedom, but the responsibility to evaluate and respond for the protection and encouragement of the flock. What they don’t need to do is talk to you privately before they do. You didn’t call all the churches and say, “Hey, I’m about to write a book that contradicts what you think the church is about.”

this comment is not the place to make the case against your view of the church. But I am against it. My responsibility is to warn the flock against your poor ecclesiology –not live by your standard of never criticizing another Christian’s book.

I know your groupies on this blog will eat me up –but, I realize that public comments are open to public criticism. I don’t plan on blogging at how awful I’ve been treated.

By: Simon

Simon — Sun, 20 Jun 2010 00:54:33 +0000

Nicely said John. I’m on the verge of becoming a revolutionary myself after 19 years in a church that has culminated in much frustration and disillusionment. However I’m aware of the danger of becoming an unloving, unchristian critic of those who cant quite see what I see. And the temptation to do this is great. Satan would enjoy that very much.

By: dbx44

dbx44 — Wed, 07 Apr 2010 20:00:01 +0000

george, i haven’t read your book. thus, i am not qualified to comment on much of what is being discussed. but i do like a good article. and what interests me is that no matter how pro or con a pastor or dissenter is, everyone is quick to use your research when making their point.

(i do belong to a church and can’t ever see myself without a church family, although the problems and shortcomings of the politics of church are maddening at times.)

By: John

John — Thu, 01 Apr 2010 15:43:07 +0000

The bulk of Mr. Barna’s work is less about his opinion and more about describing what the research indicates. If someone does not like what the numbers point to, they need to focus on doing something to change it. The enemy is very good at getting us to attack the messenger instead of addressing the problem.

By: Nancy

Nancy — Wed, 31 Mar 2010 13:03:07 +0000

You are so right. The old saying, “who needs enemys with friends like these” is sadly true when it comes to church culture. I’m sure the devil sits back & laughs. I served in my local church for 21 years and the communication gap is astounding. We don’t want to praise because it might puff up, but we definately get slammed when we do wrong. We sure have a way with our tongues to destroy those who serve among us. When will we ever learn & walk in the things we teach?

By: Dr Jesse

Dr Jesse — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 06:36:40 +0000

Yours is a classic example of people who abuse the messenger. It’s not your fault that millions of people have become disillusioned with a dysfunctional church system.

I bailed out of the christian church systems in 1980 and aside from a few exceptions, have been outside the structures since then. I was unable to find the level of integrity and revelation that I needed, until after I bailed. I have been depending on Jesus, the Head of the Body in a much greater way since then.

New things are happening nowadays. God is establishing new leaders and new ways for growing His Kingdom. Equippers and workers (Eph 12.11) is a distinction that needs to occur in this season so every saint can exercise their differing gifts in the body o Christ. That could not occur in the leader vs. pew-sitter church structures that exist.

George Barna, you are to be commended for getting the word out about startling new developments. Don’t grow weary in reporting the truth!

By: joe brown

joe brown — Wed, 10 Mar 2010 21:07:54 +0000

John,
i appreciated you comment – it’s encouraging to hear your passion for truth and your commitment to spiritual triumph in our culture. seriously. but be careful not to defeat the purpose of George’s passion for the Christian revolution by saying things like “non-Revolutionaries will never get it.” that’s a disturbing comment to hear from someone who claims to align himself with the Revolutionaries. we stand for Christ, love and truth, and as much as we are called to spur one another on to growth, and to proclaim truth passionately, we must never have even a shadow of bigotry in our words towards those members of the church that might appear to be pew-warmers. i know that Christ’s call is extreme, and we have some responsibility to call Christians on it when they are not responding as they should. but the issue should be directed away from the people who are defending and criticizing the local church. it should be directed towards spurring one another on to Christ. you said, ‘Truth survives and proves itself;’ absolutely! so give those ‘non-revolutionaries’ the benefit of the doubt as much as possible knowing that God keeps his truth without our critical eyes. and know that they will in fact, with much prayer, ‘get it’ if that’s what they need. but be careful in assuming that you get it and they don’t

By: John Quinton

John Quinton — Wed, 10 Mar 2010 06:17:06 +0000

George,
Non-Revolutionaries will never get it. I often wonder if they have ever explored their cities from 11:00am to noon on Sunday and really experienced the people who are not even looking for what they are offering. I say let them write their books, and their blogs, and even throw stones based on false information. They can never get around your facts and your data, which have proven that there are those who want more than to “do church”. Be encouraged, Truth survives and proves itself. Maybe at some point in eternity, they’ll swing by your big house, knock on the door, and say: “I was wrong”. (Or maybe they won’t be there at all.)
I’ve been profoundly affected by your research. Having spent some time with statics, polling, surveys, and data manipulation, I have the utmost of respect for your methods, your questions, your data, and your conclusions. Until Revolution came along I had no idea there were others like me, or that any book would help me identify with a rising culture.
Thank You for being unflinching in your desire to write the correct questions, gather excellent data, present the facts as you have found them.

By: Alison Perez

Alison Perez — Sun, 07 Mar 2010 20:50:28 +0000

Speaking of Americans getting their facts wrong, I just recently had a “pastor” tell me that you were “against church”….
Funny how a “pastor” has no clue as to what Church really is….