Comments on: “Just” Prayer http://www.georgebarna.com/2010/02/%e2%80%9cjust%e2%80%9d-prayer/ Facilitating A Spiritual And Moral Revolution Tue, 07 Sep 2010 01:33:07 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: JB http://www.georgebarna.com/2010/02/%e2%80%9cjust%e2%80%9d-prayer/comment-page-1/#comment-960 JB Mon, 14 Jun 2010 15:39:31 +0000 http://www.georgebarna.com/?p=255#comment-960 The answer lies in what happens when we first believe. Many times "being saved" doesn't bring along with it the renewing of our minds. Since we don't know the culture of believers we will out of safety's sake adopt the dress, language, and culture of the local church. You may come to church (the building) the next Sunday in jeans and a t-shirt and your mentor may lovingly but ignorantly tell you to dress differently (if you want to fit in). This is the beginning of the internal conflicts and eventually results in how Christians are re-crucifying Jesus every day. How many believers are Republicans and know more politicians than they do neighbors? New believers will eventually be in conversations about politics that were generated from talk radio or tv news. Bible studies morph into what people said about Sara Palin last week or that socialist representatives will be at our door soon to change us. Satan has been allowed to perpetrate on us the idea that we can change things from the top down. Jesus changed individuals. His kingdom is upside down. It is changed from the bottom up. Change begins with helping your neighbor as in "love God/love your neighbor". Individuals change the state of morality. 41% of children being born to unwed mothers is the fault of Christians not society. The U.S. isn't a Christian nation any more because the Christians aren't Christlike. Thank God for George B because his polls are telling us what is true about us. The sigh before praying, the "just" in praying, is part of fitting in and wanting to be accepted which is ok but it's part of the safety net and comfort we create within the church walls so we can count on a low risk environment. Jesus life and the Apostles lives and message were just the opposite. Where is it in the bible that we should be instructed by tv/radio and that we support people we don't know with our money and our time? It is the great deception and the wide door. Father God "just" get Christians to leave their comfort zone, get educated, and use their money for your kingdom. In Jesus precious name. Amen The answer lies in what happens when we first believe. Many times “being saved” doesn’t bring along with it the renewing of our minds. Since we don’t know the culture of believers we will out of safety’s sake adopt the dress, language, and culture of the local church. You may come to church (the building) the next Sunday in jeans and a t-shirt and your mentor may lovingly but ignorantly tell you to dress differently (if you want to fit in). This is the beginning of the internal conflicts and eventually results in how Christians are re-crucifying Jesus every day.
How many believers are Republicans and know more politicians than they do neighbors? New believers will eventually be in conversations about politics that were generated from talk radio or tv news. Bible studies morph into what people said about Sara Palin last week or that socialist representatives will be at our door soon to change us. Satan has been allowed to perpetrate on us the idea that we can change things from the top down. Jesus changed individuals. His kingdom is upside down. It is changed from the bottom up. Change begins with helping your neighbor as in “love God/love your neighbor”. Individuals change the state of morality. 41% of children being born to unwed mothers is the fault of Christians not society. The U.S. isn’t a Christian nation any more because the Christians aren’t Christlike. Thank God for George B because his polls are telling us what is true about us. The sigh before praying, the “just” in praying, is part of fitting in and wanting to be accepted which is ok but it’s part of the safety net and comfort we create within the church walls so we can count on a low risk environment. Jesus life and the Apostles lives and message were just the opposite. Where is it in the bible that we should be instructed by tv/radio and that we support people we don’t know with our money and our time? It is the great deception and the wide door.
Father God “just” get Christians to leave their comfort zone, get educated, and use their money for your kingdom. In Jesus precious name. Amen

]]> By: Barb http://www.georgebarna.com/2010/02/%e2%80%9cjust%e2%80%9d-prayer/comment-page-1/#comment-680 Barb Tue, 11 May 2010 22:50:43 +0000 http://www.georgebarna.com/?p=255#comment-680 Mr Barna, I totally agree with you on "just" prayers. I rarely hear people praying in confidence and assurance of faith! I think the "just" is not just a verbal pause! Diane I agree and I don't agree with your comments. I see that your heart is to glorify the Lord, but I (lovingly) :) disagree a bit with you. We're told to pray..,at all times, with all kinds of prayers. There are times when my prayers are silent and others when I'm...yes...pleading for something or someone LOUDLY. I LOVE when I hear people praying in public. Frankly, we don't know how to pray in groups anymore. Getting people to pray publically is often like pulling teeth! I think we've become so PC in our prayers that we don't want to offend anyone or say anything that's not "correct!" Remember, it was the tax collector that received praise form Jesus for beating himself on the chest and asking for mercy!I believe there are times when we should wait on the Lord and others when he wants us to stand and fight...in prayer! I also think weakness is not always victim mentality. I want His strength to come through! Afterall, "his strenght is made perfect in our weakness, right?" Again, I do hear your love for the Lord come through. And that's what counts! :) Mr Barna, I totally agree with you on “just” prayers. I rarely hear people praying in confidence and assurance of faith! I think the “just” is not just a verbal pause!
Diane
I agree and I don’t agree with your comments. I see that your heart is to glorify the Lord, but I (lovingly) :) disagree a bit with you.
We’re told to pray..,at all times, with all kinds of prayers. There are times when my prayers are silent and others when I’m…yes…pleading for something or someone LOUDLY. I LOVE when I hear people praying in public. Frankly, we don’t know how to pray in groups anymore. Getting people to pray publically is often like pulling teeth!
I think we’ve become so PC in our prayers that we don’t want to offend anyone or say anything that’s not “correct!” Remember, it was the tax collector that received praise form Jesus for beating himself on the chest and asking for mercy!I believe there are times when we should wait on the Lord and others when he wants us to stand and fight…in prayer!
I also think weakness is not always victim mentality. I want His strength to come through! Afterall, “his strenght is made perfect in our weakness, right?”
Again, I do hear your love for the Lord come through. And that’s what counts! :)

]]> By: Kris Freeberg http://www.georgebarna.com/2010/02/%e2%80%9cjust%e2%80%9d-prayer/comment-page-1/#comment-276 Kris Freeberg Thu, 18 Mar 2010 15:44:22 +0000 http://www.georgebarna.com/?p=255#comment-276 "The prayer of the just" :) “The prayer of the just” :)

]]> By: Diane Stranz http://www.georgebarna.com/2010/02/%e2%80%9cjust%e2%80%9d-prayer/comment-page-1/#comment-268 Diane Stranz Mon, 15 Mar 2010 23:41:25 +0000 http://www.georgebarna.com/?p=255#comment-268 Jim, I am with you -- see what I said above in reply to Alison's comment. I also love your reference to 'crying, begging, and pleading' type prayers, because it reminds me of one theological error which is rampant within Christianity -- and that is that God the Father and Jesus the Son love human beings who are 'weak.' Au contraire! People who are weak easily become prey to others, spiritually, psychologically and physically. God calls us not to be weak but MEEK -- which is not at all the same thing, since to be meek means to be humble and patient, not 'weak.' It takes great strength to remain patient and trusting in the Lord in the face of adversity, especially when worldly people exhort us to take matters into our own hands and act in ways which are NOT humble or Godly. God cannot use weak men and women because they are inherently ill-suited to do His will, and only a weak man (or woman) would beg and plead in the way we both find obnoxious. Finally, weakness of character goes hand in hand with a 'victim' mentality; true men and women of God are NOT victims and they have no need to beg or be subserviant to lost human beings. Did Jesus Christ beg or plead with Pontius Pilate or members of the Sanhedrin, or with Judas or anyone? No. Not on your life. Jim, I am with you — see what I said above in reply to Alison’s comment.

I also love your reference to ‘crying, begging, and pleading’ type prayers, because it reminds me of one theological error which is rampant within Christianity — and that is that God the Father and Jesus the Son love human beings who are ‘weak.’ Au contraire! People who are weak easily become prey to others, spiritually, psychologically and physically. God calls us not to be weak but MEEK — which is not at all the same thing, since to be meek means to be humble and patient, not ‘weak.’

It takes great strength to remain patient and trusting in the Lord in the face of adversity, especially when worldly people exhort us to take matters into our own hands and act in ways which are NOT humble or Godly. God cannot use weak men and women because they are inherently ill-suited to do His will, and only a weak man (or woman) would beg and plead in the way we both find obnoxious.

Finally, weakness of character goes hand in hand with a ‘victim’ mentality; true men and women of God are NOT victims and they have no need to beg or be subserviant to lost human beings. Did Jesus Christ beg or plead with Pontius Pilate or members of the Sanhedrin, or with Judas or anyone? No. Not on your life.

]]> By: Diane Stranz http://www.georgebarna.com/2010/02/%e2%80%9cjust%e2%80%9d-prayer/comment-page-1/#comment-267 Diane Stranz Mon, 15 Mar 2010 23:23:58 +0000 http://www.georgebarna.com/?p=255#comment-267 I am with you, Alison, but I will take it a step further: I'm tired of hearing people pray out loud in front of others PERIOD! I know that will make me sound like a heretic, but the older I get, the more God emphasizes Matthew 6:5 "When you pray, you are not to be as the hypocrites, for they love to stand and pray [in church] and on the street corners. . . . When you pray [do it out of sight, in private and in secret]." Further, I think prayer is about self-examination while knowing that God is present and listening, with the goal of eliminating all character defects which prevent us from being conformed by the Holy Spirit into Christ. The goal of all prayer is for us to become what God wants us to be so that we are able to carry out His will in the world. All this petitionary prayer -- where people pray for certains outcomes that THEY desire -- is not real prayer, and though God listens to it, I'm sure He often wishes He didn't have to! (smile) Thus, instead of prayers sometimes being 'unanswered,' I think more truly it is a situation that what YOU considered to be a prayer was not, in fact, 'prayer' from God's perspective. To this end, I read recently online that a church congregation somewhere in America had engaged in corporate prayer asking God to make it rain in order to end a drought. OMG. Trying to influence nature through 'prayer' is just out and out pagan, and is NOT 'prayer' but an attempt at magical incantation, amen. I am with you, Alison, but I will take it a step further: I’m tired of hearing people pray out loud in front of others PERIOD! I know that will make me sound like a heretic, but the older I get, the more God emphasizes Matthew 6:5 “When you pray, you are not to be as the hypocrites, for they love to stand and pray [in church] and on the street corners. . . . When you pray [do it out of sight, in private and in secret].”

Further, I think prayer is about self-examination while knowing that God is present and listening, with the goal of eliminating all character defects which prevent us from being conformed by the Holy Spirit into Christ.

The goal of all prayer is for us to become what God wants us to be so that we are able to carry out His will in the world. All this petitionary prayer — where people pray for certains outcomes that THEY desire — is not real prayer, and though God listens to it, I’m sure He often wishes He didn’t have to! (smile) Thus, instead of prayers sometimes being ‘unanswered,’ I think more truly it is a situation that what YOU considered to be a prayer was not, in fact, ‘prayer’ from God’s perspective.

To this end, I read recently online that a church congregation somewhere in America had engaged in corporate prayer asking God to make it rain in order to end a drought. OMG. Trying to influence nature through ‘prayer’ is just out and out pagan, and is NOT ‘prayer’ but an attempt at magical incantation, amen.

]]> By: Jim Roberts http://www.georgebarna.com/2010/02/%e2%80%9cjust%e2%80%9d-prayer/comment-page-1/#comment-210 Jim Roberts Tue, 23 Feb 2010 00:46:26 +0000 http://www.georgebarna.com/?p=255#comment-210 George, I was associated with a denomination where they had their typical shallow process prayer words and when I visited some non denom churches I noticed those "just" words in the prayers. I reacted the same way as you. A work associate started going to a church of another denomination and I visited his church a couple of times. The crying, begging, pleading type of prayers there seemed so innappropriate for the God I worship. Lot of different views/concepts of the character and personality of God out there. George,
I was associated with a denomination where they had their typical shallow process prayer words and when I visited some non denom churches I noticed those “just” words in the prayers. I reacted the same way as you. A work associate started going to a church of another denomination and I visited his church a couple of times. The crying, begging, pleading type of prayers there seemed so innappropriate for the God I worship.

Lot of different views/concepts of the character and personality of God out there.

]]> By: Jeff McLain http://www.georgebarna.com/2010/02/%e2%80%9cjust%e2%80%9d-prayer/comment-page-1/#comment-185 Jeff McLain Mon, 15 Feb 2010 15:53:02 +0000 http://www.georgebarna.com/?p=255#comment-185 Bad Habits lead to Bad Theology, which obviously leads to worse practice. True words. I think we as individuals often forget that though it maybe the "thought (or action) that counts" we also need to make sure that the thought or action we are conveying is the correct one. Bad Habits lead to Bad Theology, which obviously leads to worse practice. True words. I think we as individuals often forget that though it maybe the “thought (or action) that counts” we also need to make sure that the thought or action we are conveying is the correct one.

]]> By: Scott http://www.georgebarna.com/2010/02/%e2%80%9cjust%e2%80%9d-prayer/comment-page-1/#comment-184 Scott Mon, 15 Feb 2010 13:56:39 +0000 http://www.georgebarna.com/?p=255#comment-184 Perhaps it is a bad habit that is insignificant compared to the real problem of unbelief. Modern "Christianity" is so steeped in unbelief it is impotent. How about focusing our attention of the fact that we have come to the exact place as the Laodicean church in Rev. 3. Laodicea actually mean "Rule of the people" and, perhaps, because the western church exists during this democratic era, we are actually the Laodicean church that has become wealthy and has no need of God? If this is true then we have much bigger problems than the word "just". Perhaps it is a bad habit that is insignificant compared to the real problem of unbelief. Modern “Christianity” is so steeped in unbelief it is impotent. How about focusing our attention of the fact that we have come to the exact place as the Laodicean church in Rev. 3. Laodicea actually mean “Rule of the people” and, perhaps, because the western church exists during this democratic era, we are actually the Laodicean church that has become wealthy and has no need of God? If this is true then we have much bigger problems than the word “just”.

]]> By: George Barna http://www.georgebarna.com/2010/02/%e2%80%9cjust%e2%80%9d-prayer/comment-page-1/#comment-179 George Barna Sat, 13 Feb 2010 20:49:12 +0000 http://www.georgebarna.com/?p=255#comment-179 Ken, I'd agree, it's not one of the top ten plagues facing the Church today... And I agree with your concern. I've always been amazed that when people "pray" in a church service, it's usually not much of a dialogical, one-to-one moment that the rest of us listen in on and agree with as much as they are sound more like a scripted, self-conscious statement that they expect to have "graded" by the audience. But you're right, the cool thing is God listens anyway... Ken, I’d agree, it’s not one of the top ten plagues facing the Church today… And I agree with your concern. I’ve always been amazed that when people “pray” in a church service, it’s usually not much of a dialogical, one-to-one moment that the rest of us listen in on and agree with as much as they are sound more like a scripted, self-conscious statement that they expect to have “graded” by the audience. But you’re right, the cool thing is God listens anyway…

]]> By: Alison Perez http://www.georgebarna.com/2010/02/%e2%80%9cjust%e2%80%9d-prayer/comment-page-1/#comment-171 Alison Perez Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:27:07 +0000 http://www.georgebarna.com/?p=255#comment-171 Well, I don't know about the word "just", but I personally am tired of hearing people pray the same things all the time. Why is it so hard to realize that prayer is not a formal, monotonous, always serious, dry, one-sided statement? It's so sad, really, that prayer is not the thrilling, never-ending communion with our Creator that it should be. I myself am guilty of this as well, unfortunately.... Well, I don’t know about the word “just”, but I personally am tired of hearing people pray the same things all the time. Why is it so hard to realize that prayer is not a formal, monotonous, always serious, dry, one-sided statement? It’s so sad, really, that prayer is not the thrilling, never-ending communion with our Creator that it should be. I myself am guilty of this as well, unfortunately….

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